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Socalmountains.com :: Forums :: FIRE DISCUSSION
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Clarification Needed - $150 Fee

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©ammy
Tue Jul 12 2011, 06:07PM Email Thread Print View


Joined: Sat Aug 19 2006, 06:01PM
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Posts: 11686
I contemplated not posting this here because I'm afraid it will turn political, so please try to see through the politics of this matter and help me understand something.

Governor Brown recently signed a bill that imposes a $150 fee for firefighting costs on those who have homes within the state responsibility area - the area protected by Cal Fire. Here's a link to an article about this from KBHR: [Click Here] and ROTW News: [Click Here]

From what I read, this fee affects a number of us up here in the Big Bear area, however there are no Cal Fire stations anywhere near us. The local fire stations are Forest Service (federal), County Fire (San Bernardino County) and the Big Bear Fire agencies (City of Big Bear Lake and Big Bear City). I think the closest Cal Fire station is all the way down in Lucerne Valley.

So here's my confusion - why are we supposed to pay the state (Cal Fire) for fire protection when they don't protect us?

I'm not disputing the fee itself (not getting into that here). It would make more sense (regardless of what I feel about the fee) to me if I lived in an area such as Lucerne Valley or Yucaipa that had a Cal Fire station just down the street. But since none of our local fire stations are Cal Fire stations, I'm confused.
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GratefulDad
Tue Jul 12 2011, 06:19PM

Registered Member #2172
Joined: Tue Aug 10 2010, 05:37PM
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Posts: 39
COUNTY BOARD OF SUPERVISORS AGAINST $150 FEE FOR CSD AREA RESIDENTS
July 12, 2011 by Angela Meyers
Filed under Current News, Fire/Safety, Government, San Bernardino National Forest
Big Bear, Ca, July 12, 2011, 1:00pm – On July 12th the San Bernardino County Board of Supervisors authorized legal counsel to investigate and pursue legal remedies against the state in response to the recent passage and signing of Assembly Bill X1-29 by Governor Jerry Brown. The bill imposed a “fee” of $150 per inhabitable structure on all parcels of land in the unincorporated mountain areas of California, which includes Big Bear City, Fawnskin, Running Springs, and Crestline areas. Supervisor Neil Derry, who represents the majority of the San Bernardino mountain communities stretching from Lake Arrowhead to Big Bear, believes this bill is an illegal tax and comes in the wake of the state’s announcement that it would also no longer fund the air supertanker program used to fight wildfires through air drops. Those who are in the Big Bear City Community Services District area already pay a fee to the CSD for fire protection services. KBHR will have more information about this issue as it becomes available.

A Peaceful Place, So It Looks From Space.
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bills grandson
Tue Jul 12 2011, 07:51PM

Registered Member #659
Joined: Sat Sep 15 2007, 01:32PM
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Posts: 11264
I was thinking the same thing.
Didn't the Fawnskin fire station be Calfire for awhile?

The first news report on it that I saw it specificly blamed the fee on areas like Big Bear expansion into areas causing the expense. It seems to me that if areas like San Diego expanded more it would leave less areas of brush to burn.
The money I am sure will go into the general fund.

Don't argue with an idiot; people watching may not be able to tell the difference.


Someone who thinks logically provides a nice contrast to the real world.

"I solemnly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same"

WE LIVE IN THE LAND OF THE FREE, ONLY BECAUSE OF THE BRAVE!
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Lumbe® Jill
Tue Jul 12 2011, 07:57PM

R

Joined: Sun Aug 20 2006, 02:53PM
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Posts: 8817
But the point is how is anything that is occurring in Big Bear impacting CalFire? And San Diego has historically ignored the fire issue, having the fewest fire stations per capita, relying on "mutual aide" to come to their rescue when they have a fire.

What doesn't kill me does NOT make me stronger. It makes me anxious, bitchy, and vulnerable...but nobody wants to see that embroidered on a pillow...Lisa Kogan...thx LXL...sorry i stole it from you! Ok, maybe I'm not sorry :-P

Life isn't like a box of chocolates. It's more like a jar of jalapenos. What you do today, might burn your ass tomorrow...Larry the Cable Guy
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©ammy
Tue Jul 12 2011, 08:20PM


Joined: Sat Aug 19 2006, 06:01PM
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Posts: 11686
bills grandson wrote ...

I was thinking the same thing.
Didn't the Fawnskin fire station be Calfire for awhile?

The first news report on it that I saw it specificly blamed the fee on areas like Big Bear expansion into areas causing the expense. It seems to me that if areas like San Diego expanded more it would leave less areas of brush to burn.
The money I am sure will go into the general fund.


Fawnskin has been County as long as I've been up here - the past 5 years.

So we are expanding up here, but as far as I can tell we're expanding in an area protected by San Bernardino County Fire (and Big Bear Lake & City Fire), surrounded by an area protected by the US Forest Service.
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bills grandson
Tue Jul 12 2011, 08:27PM

Registered Member #659
Joined: Sat Sep 15 2007, 01:32PM
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Posts: 11264
I agree
But it would be a little like saying only people with children should pay for schools. Only people who live in snow areas should pay for snow removal. Or that people in fire prone areas of the state should pay the entire cost.
Have they decided if a "structure" is any building on the property?
I would guess that this new "tax" will probably cover the entire cost of the states firefighting bill.
Come to think of it why would the Governor come to fires that are not being fought by the state for his photo op?


Don't argue with an idiot; people watching may not be able to tell the difference.


Someone who thinks logically provides a nice contrast to the real world.

"I solemnly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same"

WE LIVE IN THE LAND OF THE FREE, ONLY BECAUSE OF THE BRAVE!
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Lumbe® Jill
Tue Jul 12 2011, 08:50PM

R

Joined: Sun Aug 20 2006, 02:53PM
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Posts: 8817
bills grandson wrote ...

But it would be a little like saying only people with children should pay for schools. Only people who live in snow areas should pay for snow removal. Or that people in fire prone areas of the state should pay the entire cost.

Huh? By imposing a tax only on the people of the mountain community, are we not being asked to foot the bill that others are not? Particularly since they do not provide a service to us?

What doesn't kill me does NOT make me stronger. It makes me anxious, bitchy, and vulnerable...but nobody wants to see that embroidered on a pillow...Lisa Kogan...thx LXL...sorry i stole it from you! Ok, maybe I'm not sorry :-P

Life isn't like a box of chocolates. It's more like a jar of jalapenos. What you do today, might burn your ass tomorrow...Larry the Cable Guy
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bills grandson
Tue Jul 12 2011, 10:18PM

Registered Member #659
Joined: Sat Sep 15 2007, 01:32PM
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Posts: 11264
Isn't the tax on all unincorporated areas in the State?

If not then it would really suck.

We have state down here but the vast majority of their calls are for medical aid.

I seem to remember the state running Fawnskin for awhil. It would have been at least 15 years ago. I think it was under a contract. It was only for a few years as I remember.
This has little to do with fires but is revenue grabbing by the stateand as you pointed out they are cutting money (they think) on the contracts.
You can count on unless they have a very light year for fires that contract will end up costing them much more then they are saving.

Don't argue with an idiot; people watching may not be able to tell the difference.


Someone who thinks logically provides a nice contrast to the real world.

"I solemnly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same"

WE LIVE IN THE LAND OF THE FREE, ONLY BECAUSE OF THE BRAVE!
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Around The Lake
Tue Jul 12 2011, 11:45PM

There is no such thing as a nobody as everyone touches someone's life
Registered Member #16
Joined: Mon Sep 25 2006, 10:38PM
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Fawnskin was # 49 as far back as 20 years that I remember.

Todd C
A Smile Goes A Long Way To Making Somebodys Day Great
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bills grandson
Wed Jul 13 2011, 04:15AM

Registered Member #659
Joined: Sat Sep 15 2007, 01:32PM
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Posts: 11264
thanks
I'm still trying to find information on this. May need to go further back. But I understand it is now station #96?

But CDF does work our forest fires. Maybe that is part of the answer?

Don't argue with an idiot; people watching may not be able to tell the difference.


Someone who thinks logically provides a nice contrast to the real world.

"I solemnly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same"

WE LIVE IN THE LAND OF THE FREE, ONLY BECAUSE OF THE BRAVE!
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Benny (N6BWX)
Jan 19 : 07:44pm
Light snow showers mimoo, roads are getting click now that we've dropped below freezing again.

lunchlady
Jan 19 : 07:25pm
I think 2010 was the last time they called more than one day at a time, we were out 5 successive days then!

lunchlady
Jan 19 : 07:23pm
Haven't heard as yet if there is school tomorrow, I expect them to call it but may not know til 5 am, they have a process in deciding, they try to drive the bus routes at 3 am to determine if it is safe and also whether they are able to plow at each school, if I had to guess, I would say and hope @No School@

bills grandson
Jan 19 : 07:20pm
I know it doesn't have equal coverage or density but do you know if there is a rule of thumb for the valley such as 0ne foot of snow raises the lake x amount of inch's there of course tons of variables but it would be nice to make a guesstimate

mimoo
Jan 19 : 07:06pm
Hi everyone, how is it up the hill right now?? Snowing or ??. I'm coming up thru Lucerne shortly.
Yes, I am one of the crazy people out on the roads. 😲😨
Thanks, I appreciate any info.

Benny (N6BWX)
Jan 19 : 06:57pm
Let's hope so Van! We're going to need a few more series like this to get there, but it's certainly possible!

Van
Jan 19 : 06:56pm
Maybe this is shaping up to be like January 2005. The lake went from 17' down to almost full at the end of that winter.

Craig (KJ6BCM)
Jan 19 : 06:39pm
LunchLady, what is the status of the Big Bear Valley Schools for Tomorrow??? Thanks for all of your info here, we all appreciate it!!!

Benny (N6BWX)
Jan 19 : 06:38pm
Absolutely BG, could certainly be some flooding & weight problems through Monday. And the kind of precip that could bring the lake up another foot...

Craig (KJ6BCM)
Jan 19 : 06:37pm
@Owl, you just might have a chance at that Snow Pool, however, so much Winter is left..... QPFs and other data from the NWS indicate tomorrow could be a wet and snowy day. Hope everyone is having a safe day.

bills grandson
Jan 19 : 06:02pm
Those conditions make dramatic lake level increases and danger for snow laden roofs. especially large buildings with flat roofs. If you have one make sure there are no dams.

Does anyone have any information this morning at the bottom of cactus flats involving the cement truck? Sounded scary

LA Owl
Jan 19 : 05:56pm
5312' elevation

LA Owl
Jan 19 : 05:55pm
We turned to rain early today but this evening it is mixed sleet/snow. The runoff was high and melted the berm as I spread it around

Benny (N6BWX)
Jan 19 : 05:37pm
Imagine 2 feet of snow, then 2 inches of rain, it's going to be quite the mess. If it stayed snow, which is always still possible... well you know the math.

Benny (N6BWX)
Jan 19 : 05:36pm
Good question Reg, and I know you also have a good knowledge of things... It's looking more likely we'll see a changeover to rain on Sunday at lake level; optimistically the snow level will bump up to around 7,000 feet, but that usually means not much sticking below 8k.


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