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Socalmountains.com :: Forums :: FIRE DISCUSSION
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Clarification Needed - $150 Fee

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©ammy
Tue Jul 12 2011, 06:07PM Email Thread Print View


Joined: Sat Aug 19 2006, 06:01PM
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Posts: 10415
I contemplated not posting this here because I'm afraid it will turn political, so please try to see through the politics of this matter and help me understand something.

Governor Brown recently signed a bill that imposes a $150 fee for firefighting costs on those who have homes within the state responsibility area - the area protected by Cal Fire. Here's a link to an article about this from KBHR: [Click Here] and ROTW News: [Click Here]

From what I read, this fee affects a number of us up here in the Big Bear area, however there are no Cal Fire stations anywhere near us. The local fire stations are Forest Service (federal), County Fire (San Bernardino County) and the Big Bear Fire agencies (City of Big Bear Lake and Big Bear City). I think the closest Cal Fire station is all the way down in Lucerne Valley.

So here's my confusion - why are we supposed to pay the state (Cal Fire) for fire protection when they don't protect us?

I'm not disputing the fee itself (not getting into that here). It would make more sense (regardless of what I feel about the fee) to me if I lived in an area such as Lucerne Valley or Yucaipa that had a Cal Fire station just down the street. But since none of our local fire stations are Cal Fire stations, I'm confused.
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GratefulDad
Tue Jul 12 2011, 06:19PM

Registered Member #2172
Joined: Tue Aug 10 2010, 05:37PM
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Posts: 38
COUNTY BOARD OF SUPERVISORS AGAINST $150 FEE FOR CSD AREA RESIDENTS
July 12, 2011 by Angela Meyers
Filed under Current News, Fire/Safety, Government, San Bernardino National Forest
Big Bear, Ca, July 12, 2011, 1:00pm – On July 12th the San Bernardino County Board of Supervisors authorized legal counsel to investigate and pursue legal remedies against the state in response to the recent passage and signing of Assembly Bill X1-29 by Governor Jerry Brown. The bill imposed a “fee” of $150 per inhabitable structure on all parcels of land in the unincorporated mountain areas of California, which includes Big Bear City, Fawnskin, Running Springs, and Crestline areas. Supervisor Neil Derry, who represents the majority of the San Bernardino mountain communities stretching from Lake Arrowhead to Big Bear, believes this bill is an illegal tax and comes in the wake of the state’s announcement that it would also no longer fund the air supertanker program used to fight wildfires through air drops. Those who are in the Big Bear City Community Services District area already pay a fee to the CSD for fire protection services. KBHR will have more information about this issue as it becomes available.

A Peaceful Place, So It Looks From Space.
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bills grandson
Tue Jul 12 2011, 07:51PM

Registered Member #659
Joined: Sat Sep 15 2007, 01:32PM
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Posts: 9449
I was thinking the same thing.
Didn't the Fawnskin fire station be Calfire for awhile?

The first news report on it that I saw it specificly blamed the fee on areas like Big Bear expansion into areas causing the expense. It seems to me that if areas like San Diego expanded more it would leave less areas of brush to burn.
The money I am sure will go into the general fund.

Don't argue with an idiot; people watching may not be able to tell the difference.


Someone who thinks logically provides a nice contrast to the real world.

"I solemnly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same"

WE LIVE IN THE LAND OF THE FREE, ONLY BECAUSE OF THE BRAVE!
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Lumbe® Jill
Tue Jul 12 2011, 07:57PM

R

Joined: Sun Aug 20 2006, 02:53PM
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Posts: 8021
But the point is how is anything that is occurring in Big Bear impacting CalFire? And San Diego has historically ignored the fire issue, having the fewest fire stations per capita, relying on "mutual aide" to come to their rescue when they have a fire.

What doesn't kill me does NOT make me stronger. It makes me anxious, bitchy, and vulnerable...but nobody wants to see that embroidered on a pillow...Lisa Kogan...thx LXL...sorry i stole it from you! Ok, maybe I'm not sorry :-P

Life isn't like a box of chocolates. It's more like a jar of jalapenos. What you do today, might burn your ass tomorrow...Larry the Cable Guy
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©ammy
Tue Jul 12 2011, 08:20PM


Joined: Sat Aug 19 2006, 06:01PM
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Posts: 10415
bills grandson wrote ...

I was thinking the same thing.
Didn't the Fawnskin fire station be Calfire for awhile?

The first news report on it that I saw it specificly blamed the fee on areas like Big Bear expansion into areas causing the expense. It seems to me that if areas like San Diego expanded more it would leave less areas of brush to burn.
The money I am sure will go into the general fund.


Fawnskin has been County as long as I've been up here - the past 5 years.

So we are expanding up here, but as far as I can tell we're expanding in an area protected by San Bernardino County Fire (and Big Bear Lake & City Fire), surrounded by an area protected by the US Forest Service.
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bills grandson
Tue Jul 12 2011, 08:27PM

Registered Member #659
Joined: Sat Sep 15 2007, 01:32PM
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Posts: 9449
I agree
But it would be a little like saying only people with children should pay for schools. Only people who live in snow areas should pay for snow removal. Or that people in fire prone areas of the state should pay the entire cost.
Have they decided if a "structure" is any building on the property?
I would guess that this new "tax" will probably cover the entire cost of the states firefighting bill.
Come to think of it why would the Governor come to fires that are not being fought by the state for his photo op?


Don't argue with an idiot; people watching may not be able to tell the difference.


Someone who thinks logically provides a nice contrast to the real world.

"I solemnly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same"

WE LIVE IN THE LAND OF THE FREE, ONLY BECAUSE OF THE BRAVE!
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Lumbe® Jill
Tue Jul 12 2011, 08:50PM

R

Joined: Sun Aug 20 2006, 02:53PM
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Posts: 8021
bills grandson wrote ...

But it would be a little like saying only people with children should pay for schools. Only people who live in snow areas should pay for snow removal. Or that people in fire prone areas of the state should pay the entire cost.

Huh? By imposing a tax only on the people of the mountain community, are we not being asked to foot the bill that others are not? Particularly since they do not provide a service to us?

What doesn't kill me does NOT make me stronger. It makes me anxious, bitchy, and vulnerable...but nobody wants to see that embroidered on a pillow...Lisa Kogan...thx LXL...sorry i stole it from you! Ok, maybe I'm not sorry :-P

Life isn't like a box of chocolates. It's more like a jar of jalapenos. What you do today, might burn your ass tomorrow...Larry the Cable Guy
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bills grandson
Tue Jul 12 2011, 10:18PM

Registered Member #659
Joined: Sat Sep 15 2007, 01:32PM
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Posts: 9449
Isn't the tax on all unincorporated areas in the State?

If not then it would really suck.

We have state down here but the vast majority of their calls are for medical aid.

I seem to remember the state running Fawnskin for awhil. It would have been at least 15 years ago. I think it was under a contract. It was only for a few years as I remember.
This has little to do with fires but is revenue grabbing by the stateand as you pointed out they are cutting money (they think) on the contracts.
You can count on unless they have a very light year for fires that contract will end up costing them much more then they are saving.

Don't argue with an idiot; people watching may not be able to tell the difference.


Someone who thinks logically provides a nice contrast to the real world.

"I solemnly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same"

WE LIVE IN THE LAND OF THE FREE, ONLY BECAUSE OF THE BRAVE!
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Around The Lake
Tue Jul 12 2011, 11:45PM

There is no such thing as a nobody as everyone touches someone's life
Registered Member #16
Joined: Mon Sep 25 2006, 10:38PM
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Posts: 3911
Fawnskin was # 49 as far back as 20 years that I remember.

Todd C
A Smile Goes A Long Way To Making Somebodys Day Great
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bills grandson
Wed Jul 13 2011, 04:15AM

Registered Member #659
Joined: Sat Sep 15 2007, 01:32PM
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Posts: 9449
thanks
I'm still trying to find information on this. May need to go further back. But I understand it is now station #96?

But CDF does work our forest fires. Maybe that is part of the answer?

Don't argue with an idiot; people watching may not be able to tell the difference.


Someone who thinks logically provides a nice contrast to the real world.

"I solemnly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same"

WE LIVE IN THE LAND OF THE FREE, ONLY BECAUSE OF THE BRAVE!
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RetiredRedHat
Oct 22 : 10:36pm
When I worked for the Forest Service I once stepped over a log. I felt my boot squirming around, figured it out, jumped back real quick, and sure enough, it was a coiled up rattlesnake that couldn't get his head out to strike me. Close.

RetiredRedHat
Oct 22 : 10:19pm
Yes, chicken.

©ammy
Oct 22 : 10:17pm
Ok, I gotta find something else to read before I go to sleep so I don't have nightmares.

©ammy
Oct 22 : 10:17pm
Of the creatures I don't like to come across in the forest, I think rattlesnake is #1 or 2. Mountain lion is the other one. Although, I haven't seen a mountain lion in the forest yet, so I do want to see one. But from safely INSIDE the truck.

RetiredRedHat
Oct 22 : 10:14pm
One time we found a pair, with the female still at the den. There were about 10 little ones, maybe six inches long. Left those guys alone. The little ones have a worse bite than the adults because they have not yet learned how to inject just enough venom to subdue their prey. They will empty the entire venom sac. Much more than a mature snake would use.

©ammy
Oct 22 : 10:06pm
I hear rattlesnake tastes like chicken. (Don't they say everything tastes like chicken?) But I'm not about to get close enough to one (intentionally) to find out!

©ammy
Oct 22 : 10:05pm
Some info about why the gate was installed: [Click Here]

RetiredRedHat
Oct 22 : 10:02pm
Thanx, Cammy. 50 ears ago my family and another used to go up canyon from Pioneer Town and catch rattlesnakes. Look for tracks across the road and then track them. Catch them with snake hooks, put them in burlap sacks, and take them back to the other family's house. He had cages and fed them mice. In the fall we would have a barbeque.

©ammy
Oct 22 : 10:01pm
Looks like there's a gate at the east (actually south, as the property line goes) end of Forest Service land. If this map marker works properly (I still haven't gotten used to the new Google Maps) then you should be able to zoom in on it and see the gate on the satellite view. Then if you switch to map mode, you'll see the FS boundary line: [Click Here]

bills grandson
Oct 22 : 09:49pm
The gate is down at the East end of pipes canyon. I don't know how they got away with doing it. That was a neat road. The campground is neglected I think the FS just wrote it off but it is a fun drive for an off roader. And you can explore the mine setup. Be prepared to do some climbing. As always if you do some research it makes it more interesting
The pioneer town road is not in bad shape but the section from pioneer town to yucca valley is pretty rough

©ammy
Oct 22 : 09:32pm
I understand there's a gate several miles down from Onyx Summit so you can't drive all the way to Pioneer Town that way.

But I've driven down Forest Road 2N02 from Baldwin Lake to Pioneer Town a couple times and that should still be passable.

RetiredRedHat
Oct 22 : 09:29pm
Is the road from Onyx Summit down through Pipes Canyon to Pioneer Town still passable?

Craig (KJ6BCM)
Oct 22 : 08:13pm
I think Fish N Brew closed way back when.. at least a couple of years ago.. I will have to give Algobertos a try. I always see it, but have never stopped in. The reviews are fantastic on the various review sites. Sounds like the Carne Asada burrito is the bomb.

NShore.Allen
Oct 22 : 08:09pm
I think I remember seeing it driving along 62 but have never stopped. Next time I will, I love fish and chips!

-WINGNUT-
Oct 22 : 07:53pm
Does anyone know if Fish&brew is still open in Morongo Valley. It was the best fish and chips ever. The would fry anything for you


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