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Forums :: Forums :: GENERAL DISCUSSION
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Environmentalists Destroyed California’s Forests

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AB BikeHikeRun
Mon Sep 28 2020, 07:16AM
Registered Member #165050
Joined: Thu Sep 24 2020, 02:12PM
Posts: 15
Stringfellow is absolutely correct that aggressive fire suppression is necessary in forests near large human populations. We've made our choice by populating California and the West. I can't say I'm complaining, as we love living in the mountains.

At the same time, at least in these mountains, most of us probably don't want large scale, industrial logging operations right in our back yards. In highly populated states like California, we want to be able to enjoy the forests as much as possible. Some active management is needed, but it should be targeted where it will do the most good.

Creating and maintaining buffer zones around our communities, where thinning and brush clearance are regularly performed, seems like a smart thing to do. Building fire resistant homes, and retrofitting existing homes to resist fire, also seems smart.

Climate change is a real issue and it is exacerbating all of the other mistakes we've made. People in the military have called it a "threat multiplier". The climate is warming far more rapidly because of our greenhouse gas emissions. That's just reality, and it should increase the urgency of taking steps to protect ourselves from fire.

Instead of just throwing stimulus money into the economy, how about using some of it to pay for better management of our public lands?
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Rumor Mill
Mon Sep 28 2020, 10:14AM

Registered Member #191
Joined: Tue Dec 05 2006, 06:43AM
Posts: 3178
The Health Forest Program thinned skyline around 2007 for population protection, fires can move 15 miles a day. I like the idea of an area to slow the burn. 40 trees per acre, too many straws in the same glass of water kills the tree production of sap that kills the Beatles. In he early 70s seems we had a lot less trees. Our school class planted pines trees up on Skyline after the Bear Creek Fire, it burned into Arctic Circle up Bear Creek and Glory ridge, stopped about a mile west of the dam. It also burned on the South side of the ridge around the valley. they stopped it along Skyline and Bluff mesa. I’m fine with Logging, better harvesting than wasting, selling the lumber is better than watching it go up in smoke.

Millennia’s sorry to tell you that there is no Santa Clause, no Easter Bunny, No Tooth Fairy, Have a great day
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Mon Sep 28 2020, 11:08AM
Registered Member #13362
Joined: Wed Aug 17 2016, 09:51AM
Posts: 43
After the Grass/Slide fire in 2007 the fire chief held a town hall to debrief the residents. He said the only reason the fire hadn't continued a westward march through Crestline, VOE and CPP was that they had just completed a nice healthy defensible firebreak around Dart Canyon area. Do more stuff like that please.

And as residents, instead of asking when abatement is due and/or complaining about the rules, we can do our best to maintain our properties throughout the year. Not much we can do about the public lands that are a hundred times more overgrown with dead trees and undergrowth but we can try to make safer our little personal corners and hope others do theirs.
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sned (KT7P)
Wed Sep 30 2020, 01:02PM

The Retired Guy!
Registered Member #10253
Joined: Thu May 01 2014, 10:50AM
Posts: 37
Check into the NFPA Firewise USA program. Arizona is one of a few states that heavily promotes Firewise communities, provides training, neighborhood assessments, grants, clearance, etc. Here is a link for info:

[Click Here]

Just finished an Assessors Course and can do individual home assessments, develop a plan and make a neighborhood a "Firewise Neighborhood." Local Fire Depts around here have Fuel Mitigation Programs where the homeowners clear trees, brush, etc and put it out curbside, a team will come by with the shredder and load, shred and haul it away, no charge and as many times as it takes.

If you wait for the the county, state or feds to come do it, well, you will still be waiting when the fire comes tearing through your neighborhood and still pay the bill. If you are not pro active in this endeavor, you are part of the problem and when your insurance is cancelled or policies not issued..... yep it becomes would have, should have time.

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Wed Sep 30 2020, 01:30PM

Registered Member #2069
Joined: Mon Feb 08 2010, 05:57PM
Posts: 558
We had a Thin is In chipper truck in Big Bear for several years. They lost their funding this year.

I used to take several pickup loads to the dump every year, packed down and higher than the cab. Through Thin is In, I used to pile all that out front; the chipper truck would come by and deal with it.

This year, no pickup, no chipper truck. The pile is growing. Eventually, I'll have to hire someone to take it away.
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Wed Sep 30 2020, 01:52PM

Lake Arrowhead
Registered Member #13200
Joined: Mon Jul 25 2016, 12:52PM
Posts: 1209
"For more than a century, people have been snuffing out fire across the West. As a result, forests, grasslands and shrub lands like those in the Bouverie reserve are overgrown. That means that, when fire escapes suppression, it’s more destructive. It kills more trees, torches more homes and sends far more carbon into the atmosphere, contributing to climate change."

That quote is from a 2017 article published in Mother Jones, hardly a conservative bastion of climate denial. The consensus of scientists, forest management experts, and the U.S. Forest Service is that California has pursued a deadly policy for nearly a century, banning most controlled burns, failing to clear underbrush, and allowing forests to build up massive fuel. The fires over the last decade are nature’s way of handling the problem–everything burns.

California’s enviro-quacktivism has led to its own giant contribution to a massive carbon footprint, reduced air quality, and momentous property damage. Coupled with that are insane water management policies, and reactionary and illogical decisions to cleanse the state from nuclear power.

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AB BikeHikeRun
Thu Oct 01 2020, 01:43PM
Registered Member #165050
Joined: Thu Sep 24 2020, 02:12PM
Posts: 15
Here in Arrowbear, we are surrounded by national forest; the boundary is just up the block from us. Is there precedent for neighbors volunteering to help thin the forest that's immediately adjacent? Of course, that would come after caring for our own, small properties.

On a small scale, I might be able to get away with just going in and starting to cut/trim the vegetation (with all electric tools) and so could some of my neighbors, but it would be nice if there were an avenue by which this could be done with the blessing of the forest service. And it would be best to undertake such efforts on a scale well beyond what a fraction of homeowners might be able to manage in their spare time. Any thoughts?
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Thu Oct 01 2020, 02:28PM
Registered Member #156367
Joined: Wed Aug 12 2020, 01:28PM
Posts: 70
Yeah, I've got some thoughts on that...
I think the way it currently stands, is that it is probably illegal to just walk onto forest property and start cutting. I think they'd have you arrested and fined for vandalism.
I think there would need to be some sort of program and supervision in place before people could volunteer for thinning on forest land. Otherwise the thinning would not be sanctioned, would not be considered a legal activity, and there would be trouble.

If you think it's a good idea, then start writing them letters and perhaps someone will create a program for just that. But don't dare try to thin before they've got a program in place...

Always looking for microphones, vacuum tubes, music production and recording equipment, old broadcasting equipment, electronic test equipment, large vintage speakers, vintage stereo/audio equipment, and stuff like that...
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Rumor Mill
Thu Oct 01 2020, 02:53PM

Registered Member #191
Joined: Tue Dec 05 2006, 06:43AM
Posts: 3178
Just go buy a wood permit. I have NF across the road from my house and I have taken a few dead trees, Bush 42 started the Health Forest Program They thinned Skyline and the hills up to skyline OPIE shut it all down 2010. Perry had a deal called spokes that went up into the Mountain

Millennia’s sorry to tell you that there is no Santa Clause, no Easter Bunny, No Tooth Fairy, Have a great day
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AB BikeHikeRun
Thu Oct 01 2020, 04:25PM
Registered Member #165050
Joined: Thu Sep 24 2020, 02:12PM
Posts: 15
I agree that it's probably illegal to just go into the forest and cut down trees. A wood permit would help with dead trees, but most of the thinning that we need today would be live trees.

Maybe it would be okay to use an electric weed whacker on the grass, or "limb up" some of the trees. I don't know. Doing this on a small, 100-200 foot buffer around our community would be nice. But I agree, we'd really want to have a program in place. This would be a good time to contact our elected representatives.
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Oct 21 : 02:14pm
We have 3 friends who used the drop box at the Library and they all have been received by the tracking. Dropping ours off tomorrow.

Oct 21 : 01:32pm
We mailed our ballots and got confirmation that they are where they need to be

Oct 21 : 01:21pm
@Sportyj: No, it was just two days ago.

Oct 21 : 12:30pm
I dropped mine off at the post office yesterday, received confirmation of receipt today from ballottrax (you have to sign up for it and updates come from caballottrax via email at every step of the way). Interested to see how long before it gets delivered to elections office but at least I have documentation.

Oct 21 : 12:25pm
Dave - I called the elections office and they said to give ours until next Monday before we move forward with “next steps” (whatever that means). Knowing yours was dropped over a week ago and still hasn’t been updated makes me even more worried. Hoping our ballots are not lost!

Oct 21 : 12:18pm
We deposited ours in the library drop box on Monday. Haven't received notification yet either.

Oct 21 : 12:18pm
Benny - I wish I would have just used the post office. Had spoken with some people who said to try and limit the impact on PO since already overburdened. Apparently that was bad advice. There are two official drop boxes in Big Bear - apparently they are only picking up every 96 hours. Hopefully I can locate my ballot!

Benny ⭐
Oct 21 : 12:15pm
Mailed it from the post office, was scanned in transition and received pretty quick. I would probably just mail it. It should have registered by now, unless they're only emptying that once a week? I didn't think we even had drop boxes up here for that? Really no need with all the post offices.

Oct 21 : 11:57am
Has anyone else used the ballot drop boxes in town? I dropped mine at the library a week ago and it’s still not showing up as received at the county office.

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