POLITICS FORUM GONE FOR NOW
Craig (KJ6BCM), Tue Sep 08 2009, 08:50PM

Due to the continuous hate that has been taking place in the Politics Forum, this forum has been disabled. The charter of this site is to Interact, exchange information, make friends, and have fun. This Forum was detracting from any of that. Please keep hate and personal attacks off of SCM forums. The Moderators have been directed to delete posts, ban accounts, etc to enforce our rules of conduct. (Link to the rules below):
[Click Here]

We are sorry we have to take this action, but the good of the many outweigh the good of one.

-The SCM Admin Team

Re: POLITICS FORUM GONE FOR NOW
SDGrandma, Tue Sep 08 2009, 09:01PM

Craig & SCM Team...understood, apologies in order if I caused a problem. Sometimes too passionate about things. Good to stick to chaarter.

Re: POLITICS FORUM GONE FOR NOW
, Tue Sep 08 2009, 09:06PM

I've read the rules of the site.
I'd like to ask if these rules are from rules of the internet? What is it the FCC?
Now I can go on facebook and say anything I want. No one says anything and no one is patrolling and moderating.
Is it because the site is small?
Just askin.

Re: POLITICS FORUM GONE FOR NOW
bills grandson, Tue Sep 08 2009, 09:15PM

what hate was that? I must have missed it.

Re: POLITICS FORUM GONE FOR NOW
inky, Tue Sep 08 2009, 09:36PM

But I finally made a funny joke! I get it though. Good move. Make it permanent for everyone's sanity, including your own.

Re: POLITICS FORUM GONE FOR NOW
Ernest T. Bass, Wed Sep 09 2009, 06:18AM


I love a good disscussion but when it turns in to "I'm right and you svck" it's time to turn things around to what was.
Thank you Craig, that was a good experiment maybe it will change in time, probable not.

Re: POLITICS FORUM GONE FOR NOW
SrRaceFan, Wed Sep 09 2009, 08:38AM

Am sorry that this particular subject had to be shut down, but understand your thinking totally. What starts out as a political discussion, quickly becomes mud-slinging. Guess it shows how strongly some of us feel. I live in a Senior complex and we have the same problem here - only instead of mud-slinging, it becomes a cane fight! Thank goodness, only typed words are allowed on your site!

Hopefully, someday, the Political thread can be restored - it did contain lots of links to be pursued. In the meantime, thanks so much for providing the Forum for us - you're definitely my favorite site on the web!

Re: POLITICS FORUM GONE FOR NOW
Bookworm, Wed Sep 09 2009, 08:43AM

The political forum was kind of like when they used to allow smoking sections on airplanes. The smoke from that section always worked its way over into the other passengers sections. Once it gets passed that area it tends to pollute the entire plane.

Re: POLITICS FORUM GONE FOR NOW
bearjibber [Banned], Wed Sep 09 2009, 08:59AM

I think banning, or warning those personally responsible would be a better idea. This is a time of great political turmoil in this country, and I feel that the political discussion represented that well. So many times I was educated on different issues by this site, and I really enjoyed it. Even if things get personal I think we're all mature enough to handle problems on our own, and not to hate anyone because of their political views.

Re: POLITICS FORUM GONE FOR NOW
Bookworm, Wed Sep 09 2009, 09:12AM



Unfortunately those warnings went unheeded. Luckily, there are many other websites that people can satisfy their needs for political information and pot stirring.

Re: POLITICS FORUM GONE FOR NOW
dd, Wed Sep 09 2009, 09:17AM

Thank you Craig, Benny and the Mods! The few that cannot follow the site rules can take the "hate" elsewhere. I really miss the community site we had before and hope to have it again soon.

Re: POLITICS FORUM GONE FOR NOW
, Wed Sep 09 2009, 11:06AM

Even if things get personal I think we're all mature enough to handle problems on our own, and not to hate anyone because of their political views.

Thanks Jib,
We are all adults on here. Some have stronger personalities than others. It seem the stronger personalities are looked at as offensive and attacking when actually they are being themselves. Whos to judge that. I think if a person gets into a tif with another person or a heated argument they should be able to deal with it on there own. Weather its politics or anything else that goes on. The only people that think its bad are the ones that aren't arguing. I remember a huge argument over a business in town and it was in my opinion wrong and some of the mods didn't think it was and continued on with the bashing.
So whos in Control? Maybe you should have a personality test people take before they sign up. Then decided whos good or whos bad. Bad in your opinion doesn't come on the site.
I mean lets be adults here. Some of the things I've been reprimanded for were in my opinion petty.
I've let go of comments made many times. Maybe some others could do the same.


Re: POLITICS FORUM GONE FOR NOW
Geezer, Wed Sep 09 2009, 11:06AM

THANK YOU CRAIG!!! I bet you have just added years to your life by eliminating that stress!

Bookie's analogy of smoking on the plane is a good one, and SrRaceFan, I love the visual I got of the "cane fighting"

Re: POLITICS FORUM GONE FOR NOW
inky, Wed Sep 09 2009, 11:27AM

If you really need a "flame" fix, check out [Click Here]. It's a news aggregation site, but they allow members to post comments after the articles they post. Whooee; things get hot from time to time.

Re: POLITICS FORUM GONE FOR NOW
, Wed Sep 09 2009, 12:26PM

I am actually glad the political threads are gone. To me it's like having a five gallon container of Ben & Jerry's Cherry Garcia in the freezer and telling yourself you will only eat some periodically. THen, reality sets in and before you know it that whole thing of ice cream is gone in a week. Some times it's better to just not get that ice cream to begin with.

Thanks for opening up my freezer door and removing that temptation for me.

I agree with Mike in that maybe political issues with find their ways into other threads as they did before there were separate threads. THe good thing about the political threads were they seemed hidden from those that may have been offended and guests or members not logged on. Now, everyone will be able to see our dirty laundry. At the end of the day, I still think the right thing was done.

Re: POLITICS FORUM GONE FOR NOW
bearjibber [Banned], Wed Sep 09 2009, 01:36PM

Do people really have that much trouble resisting food? Politics is one thing, but if you're eating 5 gallons of Ben and Jerry's in a week, you've got problems.

Re: POLITICS FORUM GONE FOR NOW
dd, Wed Sep 09 2009, 02:42PM

Oh please. I'm sure that was just an analogy.

Re: POLITICS FORUM GONE FOR NOW
bearjibber [Banned], Wed Sep 09 2009, 03:04PM



I was kidding, but seriously.

Re: POLITICS FORUM GONE FOR NOW
Barnett, Wed Sep 09 2009, 03:08PM

Aw shuks... Just when it was getting good... I was just getting ready to really slam "whats his name"

Okay Craig, I guess we'll take it outside...

BTW... Thanx for everything

Re: POLITICS FORUM GONE FOR NOW
Craig (KJ6BCM), Wed Sep 09 2009, 06:37PM

Thank you all for understanding. I love your analogy 3B, but by closing the political forum, it does not give those that made that forum a blood bath a right to move it to another forum. The moderators will be very diligent with that one. Providing a forum called "politics" gave everyone a license to bash others and that is why the decision was made. We are going to name all the other forums a type of flower

Re: POLITICS FORUM GONE FOR NOW
Geezer, Wed Sep 09 2009, 07:37PM



Hey, does this mean I finally get my gardening forum??!!!

Re: POLITICS FORUM GONE FOR NOW
Craig (KJ6BCM), Wed Sep 09 2009, 07:42PM

What kind of flower Geezer? Or should it be Garlic?

Re: POLITICS FORUM GONE FOR NOW
Geezer, Wed Sep 09 2009, 07:46PM



Just gardening in general, that would cover landscaping ideas, veggie and garlic growing, flowers, trees tips from other garden lovers, ponds, and oh yea,

Re: POLITICS FORUM GONE FOR NOW
SrRaceFan, Wed Sep 09 2009, 07:59PM

I started to type in the kinds of flowers that could be used as titles and decided there's no way you're going there, Craig... You're either pulling our leg or the elk leg!

Re: POLITICS FORUM GONE FOR NOW
Geezer, Wed Sep 09 2009, 08:03PM



Hey, but we can dream can't we???

Re: POLITICS FORUM GONE FOR NOW
, Wed Sep 09 2009, 08:44PM

You can name the new gardening thread "Hoes. Manure, Fertilizer, Dirt, and Seeding." Wait, someone might mistake that for the new political thread.

Re: POLITICS FORUM GONE FOR NOW
SocalMan, Wed Sep 09 2009, 08:45PM


You have NO IDEA how much ice cream I can eat! To be honest there were more then a few times I put a 1/2 gallon away in a night.

If I violated terms in any way in my political posts, please accept my apology.

Re: POLITICS FORUM GONE FOR NOW
Geezer, Wed Sep 09 2009, 08:54PM



I use all of the above, EXCEPT a Hoe! Too difficult to control, and there are better methods of cultivation available.

Re: POLITICS FORUM GONE FOR NOW
, Wed Sep 09 2009, 09:07PM



In my younger adult days when I was a beanstalk I could put down a 1/2 gallon as well. I used to down at least two pints of Frudjen Gladje almost every night. Thank God the stores don't carry that stuff any longer. I would also go to Swenson's (highest butter fat of any ice cream, but so yummy!) for some freshly made ice cream.

I liked ice cream so much as a kid that I used to pray to God to make my tonsils go bad so I could eat lots of ice cream and nothing else. I still have my tonsils.



Re: POLITICS FORUM GONE FOR NOW
bearjibber [Banned], Wed Sep 09 2009, 09:15PM



One member used to eat full sticks of butter as a child. Guess who?

Re: POLITICS FORUM GONE FOR NOW
, Wed Sep 09 2009, 09:17PM

My guess would be ButterFryAway (Diane).

Re: POLITICS FORUM GONE FOR NOW
melmorial , Wed Sep 09 2009, 09:20PM



you can control hoes by paying them more

Re: POLITICS FORUM GONE FOR NOW
, Wed Sep 09 2009, 10:47PM

Just be careful the hoes don't rake you for shoveling it their way.

Re: POLITICS FORUM GONE FOR NOW
bearjibber [Banned], Thu Sep 10 2009, 09:29AM

I just want to know how you could survive eating 5 gallons of ice cream a week.

Re: POLITICS FORUM GONE FOR NOW
KittyKatKutter, Thu Sep 10 2009, 10:47AM

I really love the idea of a gardening forum. That is something where most of us could gain a lot of knowledge from other SoCal members and make new friends in the process.

Re: POLITICS FORUM GONE FOR NOW
bearjibber [Banned], Tue Sep 15 2009, 05:44PM

I think that moderating has far over stepped what it should be at this point. Now anything that's funny, or may even start a legitimate discussion is banned. No difference of opinion allowed, that would be bad! Shame, shame.

Re: POLITICS FORUM GONE FOR NOW
Lumbe® Jill, Tue Sep 15 2009, 06:18PM

This is not a democracy. This is a private forum with rules set by the owners. The owners have decided that there will be no politics discussed here, as a result of the way previous political discussions have gone. Anyone who doesn't approve of that is free to discuss whatever they want elsewhere. PERIOD

Re: POLITICS FORUM GONE FOR NOW
melmorial , Tue Sep 15 2009, 06:38PM

yay R!!!!! (and the rest of the admin!!!) maybe we can get this place back to the family site it was meant to be

Re: POLITICS FORUM GONE FOR NOW
Benny (N6BWX), Tue Sep 15 2009, 07:00PM



I didn't think I ever posted that on here, how'd you know? I also used to eat onions like an apple.

Re: POLITICS FORUM GONE FOR NOW
melmorial , Tue Sep 15 2009, 07:03PM



that explains a lot hahahahahha

Re: POLITICS FORUM GONE FOR NOW
bearjibber [Banned], Tue Sep 15 2009, 09:02PM



My post wasn't pertaining to politics, it's about certain overzealous moderators, who think they need to babysit everyone. It doesn't have to be politics, it could be me saying that I don't like daffodils in the garden section, then it would get deleted because someone may really like them, so it would hurt their feelings. I mean come on, can we get a well-established set of rules mods follow or what? This isn't a forum full of 10 year olds.

Re: POLITICS FORUM GONE FOR NOW
Bookworm, Tue Sep 15 2009, 09:04PM

I would have pegged you more for a 9 year old.

Re: POLITICS FORUM GONE FOR NOW
bearjibber [Banned], Tue Sep 15 2009, 09:08PM



Haha even the mods are in on the attacks. This thread: epic fail!

Re: POLITICS FORUM GONE FOR NOW
Lumbe® Jill, Tue Sep 15 2009, 09:10PM

Jibber, there ARE well established rules for moderators to follow. And again, I remind you that this is not a democracy! Play by the rules or leave.

Re: POLITICS FORUM GONE FOR NOW
bearjibber [Banned], Tue Sep 15 2009, 09:11PM

Some posts are going to offend a few people, some posts may cause people to disagree with one another, but that doesn't mean we can delete everything. No politics is fine, but why don't we wait until people make personal attacks, or absolutely deserve the deletion of their post or thread.

Re: POLITICS FORUM GONE FOR NOW
bearjibber [Banned], Tue Sep 15 2009, 09:13PM



I'm just sayin' you got mods in on the hate mongering too, fail. Can we get a list of the rules the mods are supposed to follow please? If I have to follow rules I'd like to know the other side of the coin.

Re: POLITICS FORUM GONE FOR NOW
Bookworm, Tue Sep 15 2009, 09:17PM

I am the mod you are talking about and I will be glad to say that I am tired to death of you. If you want to talk to me, please feel free to Private message me.

Re: POLITICS FORUM GONE FOR NOW
Lumbe® Jill, Tue Sep 15 2009, 09:21PM

We're done discussing this. The moderators apply the set of rules that are listed for the members to follow. 99% of the members don't have a problem following these rules, and are in fact grateful for them. 0.9% simply need to be reminded of those rules. 0.1% need a break so they have time to think about the best way to interact with the people they claim are their friends.

Re: POLITICS FORUM GONE FOR NOW
, Tue Sep 15 2009, 09:54PM


Aww ha the truth comes out. In rare form Bookie not like you to say how you really feel. Your usually a little sneakier.

How would you like it if someone talked about you that way? Remember you said that to me when I said I was glad luna moved? How is what you just said to Jib any different?

Jib we might both get banned.



Re: POLITICS FORUM GONE FOR NOW
Lumbe® Jill, Tue Sep 15 2009, 10:01PM

Would anyone else like to piss on the moderators? Is it the phase of the moon? Has everyone forgotten how to pull together in hard times? I'd really like to understand so I can help us all get past it, because I really can't take much more. I took a break for a couple of weeks because of how negative things had gotten. I came back when Craig made some choices that should have helped, but it seems like it's just going on without the political thread. So I have to ask...WTF? I'd really like to hear your ideas...

Re: POLITICS FORUM GONE FOR NOW
melmorial , Tue Sep 15 2009, 10:07PM



do we have to pay extra for that??

Re: POLITICS FORUM GONE FOR NOW
Lumbe® Jill, Tue Sep 15 2009, 10:09PM

yes...100% more

Re: POLITICS FORUM GONE FOR NOW
dd, Tue Sep 15 2009, 10:30PM

So you want ideas? Here's mine. The rules are there for a reason. If they cannot be followed, I say permanently ban the rule breakers. End of story!

I'm tired of all the hate and BS that has been growing here lately. Keep up the good work mods!

Re: POLITICS FORUM GONE FOR NOW
Geezer, Tue Sep 15 2009, 10:30PM

It seems there are members that feel the need to needle and provoke in a manner that is not acceptable in any gentile society. There are ways to express yourself in public that are not offensive, even to those you don't agree with. It is a matter of common courtesy and respect for your fellow human beings.

That said, some continue to provoke beyond reason until they get their desired response. I have yet to see daffodils, fruit and vegetables provoke this type of anger and I belong to several garden clubs!

Re: POLITICS FORUM GONE FOR NOW
bills grandson, Wed Sep 16 2009, 12:20AM

R
"So I have to ask...WTF? I'd really like to hear your ideas."

O.K. since you asked. I prefered doing this in PM's
but here is my idea.

You posted this in defense of some members carrying on about the "please help me thread"

It is the same argument we have made in defense of the politics thread.

3-This thread, just like every other one does not have to be read by anyone who fails to enjoy it.


Since many do not seem to be able to ignore a red dot without reading it my idea was tho make it similar as it was to lurkers and have it not posted on the menu. Instead there would be a place with a disclaimer that spelled out that politics can cause some to be offeneded. and that you have to opt in to have it appear on your menu. That way it is out of sight and out of mind for those not interested. No different rules.

I must have missed the final straw as when I last posted it was just typical stuff like always. and when I came back a few hours latter it was gone.
One member was posting silly things to get people upset and one or two actualy fell for it.

The advantage of keeping those of us who would like to discuss the important issues of the day in our rubber room is it does not spill over into the other areas as it is now.

I would prefer it be called "the coffee shop" so that things other then politics could be discused easily.


The way it is going there will be a showdown. Feelings will be hurt, members will be lost. ulcers developed.
And it will be another chat room and tea party (no not the political kind)
None of these are good for any of the members or the site.
This is a unique site and is important to all of us who choose to post that it should survive. Nobody should feel excluded or that they are special in any way
I have noticed a decline in those posting because everything they want to say can take on a political slant.

you asked for suggestions, that is mine

you guys do what you want but without diversity you will have a Pyrrhic Victory

Re: POLITICS FORUM GONE FOR NOW
, Wed Sep 16 2009, 02:01AM

The bottom line is that this a privately owned site and what the owners say and want goes. As R pointed out, if you want to act freely to do as you please, you have the right to go elsewhere. I don't want anybody telling me how to run my biz and for those of you with bizzes, I am sure you don't either.

Mods, perhaps there could be a disclaimer in a conspicous spot on this site that says "we reserve the right to delete any post for any reason." I think that will pretty much sum it all up and leave no doubts in anyone.

Re: POLITICS FORUM GONE FOR NOW
MIKE, Wed Sep 16 2009, 06:04AM

The way I look at it is like this.

I don't smoke, if you come to my house or get in my car you will not smoke in either, PERIOD. Also if you want to be an A$$ I will have you leave my home or car, forcefully if needed. Those are the rules of my house, obey my rules or leave there is no room for argument.

This is not my house and rules have been set, I follow these rules and accept them as I am a guest here and I am welcome to take my opinions somewhere else if they conflict with the rules set by the persons providing me with access to this forum.

Bottom line is if you don't like it get the hell out, and take it somewhere else.

Re: POLITICS FORUM GONE FOR NOW
bills grandson, Wed Sep 16 2009, 06:37AM

prople keep talking about rules. These are the only ones I can find that would apply to this discussion.


1. Members must act in good conduct and not be offensive or attack other members in any aspect of the site including (but not limited to) Forums, Chatbox, Photo/Media Gallery, Comment areas, and in Private Messages. Violations of this policy will result in the suspension (or removal) of your account

4. Use of Bad Language or Profanity is absolutely PROHIBITED. Abuse of this policy will result in suspension and/or termination of your account. Please use the REPORT THIS POST link at the top right of each message to report a post you find offensive to the moderators.

I am always impressed that number 4 is so rarely violated. we are usually so polite to each other when we debate

"offensive" of course is in the eye of the beholder
I don't think because someone does not agree with you means it is offensive. I noticed one thing that was clearly a violation which is usually subject to a warning, or even suspension as the rules state

I have no intention of arguing this and I only posted in answer ti R's question

and this time to clarify my point. I figured posting in bold would have been enough.

As I clearly stated they can do whatever they want. I have never felt I was anything more then a guest of Craigs. And to the best of my knowledge I have never been warned on anything I have posted out of line. although I know of one time (at least) I probably should have.

I even commented that there is no first amendment rights that allow us to post on this site when some seemed to think there was.

Re: POLITICS FORUM GONE FOR NOW
SrRaceFan, Wed Sep 16 2009, 06:45AM

I agree with Mike! If you don't like the rules of the SoCal house, then build your own house, make your own rules, and hit the 'Delete' button whenever you feel like it.

This site is full of great stuff for those looking for great stuff. The constant carping, harping, and whining gets old in a hurry no matter which thread it's posted in. I'd love to hear about the good things that are going on in your lives - surely there are some?

Re: POLITICS FORUM GONE FOR NOW
bills grandson, Wed Sep 16 2009, 07:41AM

one more time.

I have no problem with the rules,

I had not posted on this since the first day or two asking for clarification

r asked for idea's

I offered my solutution


I stated what I thought would happen if things continue as they are (which apparently is happening now, though I was very clear on my original post)


I don't really care what they decide, bring it back, keep it gone, whatever .

And the only ones I see carping harping, and whining are not me. this is more offensive and more of a personel attack then anything that was on the politics thread, and much less deserved

(see rule 1)

per mike "get the hell out"

(see rules 1 & 4)

Re: POLITICS FORUM GONE FOR NOW
Lumbe® Jill, Wed Sep 16 2009, 07:46AM

I did not ask for your opinion about how to run the site. I asked for opinions about why members feel it is ok to jump on each other so readily, why the flavor around here has gotten so aggressive and ugly, why the cranky have taken rule and think they should get what ever they want at the expense of the truly good people.

Re: POLITICS FORUM GONE FOR NOW
Lumbe® Jill, Wed Sep 16 2009, 07:49AM


If this were true, you'd stop bringing it up. The decision has already been made and your constant nagging about it isn't going to bring the political section back.

Re: POLITICS FORUM GONE FOR NOW
MtMan, Wed Sep 16 2009, 08:55AM

"members feel it is ok to jump on each other so readily, why the flavor around here has gotten so aggressive and ugly, why the cranky have taken rule and think they should get what ever they want at the expense of the truly good people."

And:

"The decision has already been made and your constant nagging about it isn't going to bring the political section back"

No comment necessary...



Re: POLITICS FORUM GONE FOR NOW
Lumbe® Jill, Wed Sep 16 2009, 09:11AM


I'm sorry. Subtleties aren't working on me today. Are you saying everyone has gotten cranky because the political forum is gone? Because we made a decision that isn't popular with everyone?


Re: POLITICS FORUM GONE FOR NOW
, Wed Sep 16 2009, 10:18AM

This thread announcing the political forum was taken away was announced by the owner of this site. It was his choice, his decision. 'nuff said!

Re: POLITICS FORUM GONE FOR NOW
MtMan, Wed Sep 16 2009, 10:45AM

"Are you saying everyone has gotten cranky because the political forum is gone?"

No, I will take the bait and explain below:

"members feel it is ok to jump on each other so readily"

"decision has already been made and your constant nagging"

Judging from your above comments, it seems ok for an "administrator" to "jump on" members. But then, as you have stated, this is a private site and you can do what you want. I was just calling attention to this trait by my first post.

I have more opinions on the banning of the political forum but I feel it does not really any good to voice them here. Difference of viewpoints seems to be just way too controversial around here. Like I said, private site, private rules, whatever.





Re: POLITICS FORUM GONE FOR NOW
Lumbe® Jill, Wed Sep 16 2009, 10:54AM

Interesting...I didn't think I was jumping on him. But then, I guess most people doing the jumping wouldn't think so. Point noted. I will have to digest this for a while.

There is no problem with presenting a different opinion. There is a problem with presenting in a way that attacks another forum member. But then, those most out spoken rarely see that distinction.

Re: POLITICS FORUM GONE FOR NOW
Benny (N6BWX), Wed Sep 16 2009, 11:09AM

Not to worry, a buddy of mine will have bigbearpolitics.com back up shortly I believe.

Re: POLITICS FORUM GONE FOR NOW
MtMan, Wed Sep 16 2009, 11:20AM

"I didn't think I was jumping on him. "

"your constant nagging"

In my opinion, this is "jumping on him". In yours, maybe not. My point is, being "offensive" or "attacking" is in the eye of the beholder, that's it. Again, it is YOUR site and YOUR rules, so be it.


Re: POLITICS FORUM GONE FOR NOW
Lumbe® Jill, Wed Sep 16 2009, 11:33AM

No, it's not my site. It's Craig. And I already said I'd have to think about your point.

Re: POLITICS FORUM GONE FOR NOW
MtMan, Wed Sep 16 2009, 12:37PM

Sorry for the confusion, I meant "YOUR" site collectively, as in all you moderators/administrators.

Re: POLITICS FORUM GONE FOR NOW
Bookworm, Wed Sep 16 2009, 12:48PM

Mt. Man all the moderators on this site try to tactfully deal with situations as they arise. It is only after we have had the same conversation over and over with people that we need to be more forceful. If you continue to have concerns please contact Craig directly.

Re: POLITICS FORUM GONE FOR NOW
bills grandson, Wed Sep 16 2009, 01:10PM

R
I had made my suggestion to Craig in PM's and he told me he was thinking along the same lines.
It appears he has changed his mind. so be it.

As was mentioned the only mean attitudes seem to be coming from
others

"why the cranky have taken rule and think they should get what ever they want at the expense of the truly good people"

I couldn't have said it better myself.
so I guess I am not a "good people" in your opinion?

"your constant nagging about it isn't going to bring the political section back".

what constant nagging. I only answered your question that now has changed. then tried to defend myself.
has anything been done to the rule breakers in previous posts?


"There is no problem with presenting a different opinion. There is a problem with presenting in a way that attacks another forum member. But then, those most out spoken rarely see that distinction"

I have never seen the hate shown in politics to compare to the bashing I have received over trying to state an opinion.
I suggest that you close this thread and we don't talk about it anymore. It is obvious that nothing will be gained by continuing this any longer

I believe we all should look into ourselves and see where the hate really is coming from


I understand that personal problems have taken a toll on some members lives and I wish them the very best.

lets go back to talking about the pretty flowers, join hands and leave this hate behind us




Re: POLITICS FORUM GONE FOR NOW
Lumbe® Jill, Wed Sep 16 2009, 01:34PM

Bill's Grandson...everyone knows we have a history of butting heads, but I have never called you cranky, so why would you suppose that statement was about you? As for being a good person...I have not seen you in action so I have no way of knowing. But that doesn't mean I feel you are a bad person. Please...we have enough misunderstandings without you putting words in my mouth. Furthermore, my question didn't change. It was about attitudes from the beginning. I'm sorry you mistook it. As for the nagging comment, you have lamented the loss of the political forum several times now, not just this time in this thread.

I'll go back to hiding in my hole if that's what you want. It's the lack of respect for what is said by the ones who put in the effort to make this forum what it is, that made me want to quit to begin with.

Re: POLITICS FORUM GONE FOR NOW
MtMan, Wed Sep 16 2009, 01:35PM

"If you continue to have concerns"

Only concern is to call a spade, a spade, that simple. No need to have "direct" contact with Craig, at least, I don't think so.

"people that we need to be more forceful."

Again, perception on how it is viewed. What does "forceful" mean?

Is there a test that moderators have to take before coming one? What is the definition of "tactifully deal with"? If a test does exist, may we all see a copy?

Re: POLITICS FORUM GONE FOR NOW
MtMan, Wed Sep 16 2009, 01:40PM

"It's the lack of respect..."

Re: POLITICS FORUM GONE FOR NOW
Bookworm, Wed Sep 16 2009, 01:40PM

Yes. There is a test. They put you in a box with a bunch of monkeys and see how long you last. By the way Mt. Man, the moderators do not get paid to put up with this. We do it because we enjoy or used to enjoy talking to our friends in a civil way.

Re: POLITICS FORUM GONE FOR NOW
MtMan, Wed Sep 16 2009, 01:48PM

"the moderators do not get paid to put up with this."

Put up with what? I am simply asking questions in order to get answers. I would like to know if there are 2 different "rules" for moderators and members. Whether it is officially ok for moderators and/or members to have "attitudes" to one another. Just wondering...

Re: POLITICS FORUM GONE FOR NOW
Bookworm, Wed Sep 16 2009, 01:52PM

If you truly have questions then contact Craig. He will be happy to explain the rules to you.

Re: POLITICS FORUM GONE FOR NOW
MtMan, Wed Sep 16 2009, 02:11PM

So, moderators do or don't have separate rules on how they may converse with members? Oh, forget it.

Re: POLITICS FORUM GONE FOR NOW
MtMan, Wed Sep 16 2009, 02:20PM

I am D-O-N-E with this subject. I have been threatened to be banned if I "keep it up" by "stirring the pot".

One last comment: Yes, Virginia, sad, but there are different rules for moderators vs. members.....

Re: POLITICS FORUM GONE FOR NOW
bills grandson, Wed Sep 16 2009, 02:28PM

I don't call it butting heads I call it different opinions. And we agree on much more then we ever fight over.
I have always found our talks to be interesting and stimulating. I have always tried to be a friend to you and only wish you the very best.

I would never want you hiding in a hole. just to see how you come across at times. I did not put those words in your mouth you typed them. It is clear they were directed mainly at me as I was the only one here and you refered to MtMan's post as a "him" that could only be me at the time.

I have said tons of times that you guys have a thankless job.
And I don't try to add to your troubles.

It is almost impossible for you guys to do your job and yet have the fun that we have at being able to state our opinions without the reservations you have imposed by your position

One thing you guys have to understand is that yes you guys hold the power of the switch. But the members are what keeps the site going. I like to think that I have contributed (as has everyone else) to the things that make the site interesting.

we all hope to make the site better

moderators are becoming heavy handed and public when they could do there job better in PM's where it dosn't have to end in a fistfight.
Like I said it is a frustrating job for you

I have seen far to many really great members abandon the site mostly for personality reasons with staff. Each of these is a failure to everyone and the site is hurt by it.
I have an idea that removing the political area was the ultimate political statement.

Like I said I suggest you lock this thread and put it behind all of us and see what the future brings

Re: POLITICS FORUM GONE FOR NOW
Geezer, Wed Sep 16 2009, 02:56PM

There are different rules for moderators....yea they get all the PM's complaining about the lack of civility that has been shown on here lately. They are the "Police" on the site, and as such deserve our respect. No one likes getting a "ticket", even when they deserve it! The moderators have all taken a huge amount of undeserved flack and downright nastiness from a few of the members when they have just been "doing their jobs". Frankly, I can't find fault in anything they have said after seeing some of what has been flung their direction. I doubt any of the ones causing the problems could have handled it better.

The concept of eliminating the political thread was to put some water on the fire in an area that was causing the most anger, hurt feelings, name calling and just plain evilness. We do not even know all of the things that were happening behind the scenes. This was spreading into the other areas of the site, as well as making a large number of the members unhappy and downright afraid to say anything here. I for one am happy the moderators are doing their job, and I applaud them for it!

Re: POLITICS FORUM GONE FOR NOW
SrRaceFan, Wed Sep 16 2009, 03:22PM

Ditto to what Geezer said!

Re: POLITICS FORUM GONE FOR NOW
BB Dweller, Wed Sep 16 2009, 05:57PM


From:
Craig (KJ6BCM)

Message Sent:
Tue Sep 15 2009, 06:55PM

Message Read:
Wed Sep 16 2009, 08:15AM

Delete Hey Jerry. As you know we removed the Politics Forum due to the fact that every topic turned into anger and bloodshed. This is counterproductive to the charter of this site. PLEASE stop starting political threads on this site as they will only be deleted. We want everyone to enjoy it here without a political agenda. There is a site coming online soon that will address the needs of the political people.

Thank you very much!
-Craig


I do not have a political agenda but like to have discussion on the news topics that dominates my life and our future. Some of the people do change insults and some also give information on things. The Mods at times are the worse with insults but I assume they are doing it for free.

I noticed the political thread was missing and now I know why.

The post I put up was news from Yahoo news section and an article from the Herald and to me a total waste of time and money.

So what will be in the news section? Not current topics that are dominating national news.

And what is political? Are we talking about National, State or the local bottom feeders OPPS?

How about the school district. They could have had taking a 2 percent cut and all the teachers would have all been back this year but instead we now have overcrowding.

The DWP is getting ready to raise its rates trying to become the number one priced Water Company in the state.

The city is paying a hell of a lot of money for the clown at the top.

The city bases the employ pay to the same as other large cities like Los Angles

The city is getting ready to build a new low cost rent apartments with our tax dollars. It is in direct competition with the local builders, material suppliers, and home owners and they are sending your tax dollars off the mountain only to build one more Big Bear Lake monument to place a plaque for the city council.

The city wants to put in a ramp for non-motor boats and is trying to shut down the people that are launching kayaks.

How about how our forest is managed. Most of us whom have been here for years, decades are up set on the condition

Are these all political or just some?


Re: POLITICS FORUM GONE FOR NOW
Craig (KJ6BCM), Wed Sep 16 2009, 06:06PM

I thought my initial post in this thread was pretty easy to understand, but I guess I must elaborate.

First of all, I want to thank the moderators as they have to take a lot of abuse, deal with it, all without a paycheck. Also, please respect the moderators. They do their best!

Prior to the removal of the Politics Forum (PF), a continuous stream of complaints were received from a large number of SCM members. It was not only due to the content of the PF, but do to the fact the negativity and hate was spreading to other forums which used to be a place for positive conversation. I decided it was best to remove the political forum and also take a hard line on political subjects in other forums due to the negative nature that has been scaring away a lot of "regular" members. The few people that have to continually be negative and start conflict were detracting from the purpose of this site. This is not SocalPolitics.com, this is Socalmountains.com.

Since the removal of the PF and a new policy on political topics, I have received 3 complaints, and dozens and dozens of thank yous. Back to my original concept of "The good of the many outweighs the good of the few". There are many other sites (some up here in the mountains) that have active political forums, so I suggest for those that cannot interact in any way except political take your discussions there. I would also ask those that have to be continually negative in their posts go somewhere else. I know that sounds harsh, but in the scheme of things, losing a little to save a lot is not of concern to me.

Lets keep SCM a positive, informative, and FUN place to be!
Thank you,
Craig

P.S. I am locking this thread as there is nothing more to discuss here.